The past 2 or 3 years have been cherishable for the Indian cricket fans. There have been many positives that India has achieved during this time. A young captain has emerged as a formidable strategist who is not only good at motivating his team mates but is also a very skilled batsman. Youngsters like Rohit Sharma and Robin Uthappa have cemented their place in the side. On the bowling front the pacers have developed consistency and have shown remarkable form and fitness levels. India has benefited from the return of Pathan, the consistency of RP Singh and the pace and youthful exuberance of Ishant Sharma. Further Harbhajan Singh when playing has been effective as ever and Piyush Chawla has impressed, whatever little we have seen of him. There are also a few other talented spinners waiting for an opportunity to shine.
The IPL revealed many competent Indian cricketers, many of whom were unheard of until the event took place. But the Indian perspective cannot be properly analysed without saying that, for all the talent and positives seen from the IPL, ODI cricket is a different ball game. It is India’s position in ODI’s currently and in particular this Asia Cup that this article explores.
Most would assert India is going with the strongest batting line up. It has been mentioned earlier on this blog that India is blessed with 5 excellent batsmen; namely, Sehwag, Gambhir, Yuvraj, R Sharma and Dhoni. Although Rohit Sharma is out of form and although we have not seen him a lot, whatever we have seen is very encouraging. He has a good temperament, class and very good batting sense. Although there are good batsmen playing for Pakistan and Sri Lanka as well, it does not take a genius to realise that in terms of form and consistency the Indian batsmen beat their Pakistani and Sri Lankan counterparts by a mile.
Although India’s bowling is weaker than its batting (and almost always has been) it seems it is still a formidable bowling unit. Irfan Pathan, Praveen, RP Singh and Ishant Sharma are all in good form. The other main bowlers in the squad are Gony, Piyush Chawla and Ojha. Gony was very good in IPL and Chawla has a good head on his shoulders so there are huge expectations from him.
One major advantage for India, and which can be utilised by Dhoni as a trump card, is the number of all rounders in the squad. Traditionally India has lacked solid all rounders who deliver consistent performances with ball and bat. In this squad Dhoni has Piyush Chawla, Praveen Kumar, Irfan Pathan and Yusuf Pathan. There are also of course Yuvraj and Sehwag who can bowl if need be.
India will have no problem with the pitches and weather conditions in Pakistan, as the conditions would be more or less identical as India. We have shared opinions about whether the home advantage counts or not. It seems the consensus has been, that what is more important than home advantage is the form and confidence of a side. Recently India have performed well In Pakistan against Pakistan. 5 or 10 years ago they could not perform as remarkably. So the overall quality of a side matters more than where it is playing. Even if there is such a thing as “home advantage” it is likely to be nullified in the face of a confident and competent side, where the batsmen make plenty of runs and bowlers take wickets and keep runs down.
In terms of opposition, it would perhaps be fair to say that both Pakistan and Sri Lanka present an equal threat to India, although most of us have already agreed India is the strongest team in the series. Sri Lanka are expected to demonstrate more application and consistency than Pakistan. Whereas India will be wary of Pakistan’s ability to surprise as they clearly did in the Kitply Cup final. It is this “surprise element” Pakistan carries that makes it equally competent to Sri Lanka, when considered objectively as an opposition to India.
So India cannot afford to take Pakistan lightly in Thursday’s game. Maybe Pakistan is going with a slight psychological advantage having won the last game the two sides played and also because the Indians may have felt they needed some rest after Wednesday’s game against Hong Kong. Having said that, the way Hong Kong was thrashed made them seem like mere cannon fodder and India may have had the requisite match practice it needs to counter Pakistan with all guns blazing.
What happened in the Kitply Cup final from Pakistan’s perspective may have seemed a fluke, but from India’s perspective it proves that despite India’s recent infallible status the Indian side is still vulernable to a surprise attack from the opposition. Hence a competitive Asia Cup is expected and it remains to be seen whether Dhoni’s invigorated boys will rise to the occasion and win the Asia Cup for their country for the 5th time.


June 26, 2008 at 1:22 am
Very good thread indeed, I am impressed by the way this thread has been written keeping in view of the Indian perspective about the Asia Cup. We Indians tend to throw caution to the air when playing against Pakistan and keep our fingers and our toes crossed, because on numerous occasions when we thought we are a strong team and we will win, Pakistan has surprised us. The stats prove that we have lost more than we have won. The point is Indian batting line up has always been very formidable starting from the time of Gavaskar and Srikanth to Tendulkar and Ganguly and Dravid. The only difference between those sides and this current Indian side is almost all the players including the captain is young. So one can safely say that it is a youthful team and that is why there is always an exuberance of youthful display especially in terms of batting. The current Indian side is also one of the best India has produced in terms of fielding with Yuvraj, Rohit, Raina. Having said all that I am still perplexed and not so confident about India winning the cup. Once again the Asia Cup stats are in India’s favour but records are meant to be broken, stats are always dynamic and changing. Being an Indian I would like India to win it is not like the IPL final that whoever wins it is still one of the Indian sides and that is the beauty of the international competitions that emotions run high, feelings are firing and BP is soring high and for both teams a win is a must as the fans don’t want to see their side losing. I will be lying if I say that I was not upset when India lost to Pakistan in the recent tri-series Kitply Cup. Hence I did not write on the blog for sometime. Anyways tomorrow’s match will not eliminate either of the team but it will give them the comfort of playing against the number two team of the other group which is Bangladesh. So I am also waiting to see the match live on TV which is scheduled to start in the afternoon today.
June 26, 2008 at 2:06 am
Rao
I quite agree with you about the timing of this thread and also the contents as well as your views. You have very rightly pointed out the finer points of this young Indian side which the avatar of the thread has also mentioned in detail, especially about Dhoni’s role and his planning and strategies as well as his control over the team and handling tough situations by keeping his cool etc., these are the basis of this team’s success and it has been winning more under his captaincy not just against minnows but, against stronger opposition like Australia and Pakistan.
Pakistan’s win at the final of Kitply cup is a fluke, its one of those days when they play well and are unbeatable by any team in the world. But, on most occasions they are pretty mediocre and lacking in consistency. The first match they played against Hong Kong is an example of poor show. Luckily Tanvir and Fawad Alam saved them from the blemishes otherwise the seniors have done their job like they did at the Caribbean WC.
Pakistan’s bowling is also not so good as it used to be in the past. Even with the Actor and Asif (once upon a time when they both were fully fit and playing without getting injured or without the help of inhalers and steroids - which is hard to remember when?) and with Umar Gul to support them, the bowling had some pace and depth then. Right now if Gul and Tanvir cannot take a wicket in their first spell they get very cranky and loose their focus and bowl wides and allow the opposition to score and that adds to their frustration. There is no backup bowling to match them. Rao Iftikhar can be good one day and expensive the other, Wahab Riaz is very immature and you cannot even think of expecting anything from him. Whether he will play tomorrow or not is a big question mark, it all depends on Malik.
So far, the pitch has proved that spinners can contain runs and also get wickets, Nadeem Ahmad, Piyush Chawla, Afridi, Sehwag all got wickets. Chawla and Nadeem were the most successful bowlers with 4 wickets each. So, I reckon for Pakistan it would be better to retain the same team as Fawad Alam can also bowl besides his batting and to play Mansoor Amjad only for the satisfaction that he is a specialist bowler is not worth. You would be throwing him in the deep end on his debut and that too against India who are good at playing against spinners. Definitely it is not a good idea to play him now. Malik should be more brave and bowl more frequently rather than skipping his responsibilities as a bowler.
In the previous thread I have mentioned that it would not be possible for Dhoni and Raina to score a century within 24 hours and that doesn’t mean they will not score tomorrow against Pakistan. But, I have a feeling that Gambhir and Yuvraj could be more destructive tomorrow. Gambhir will play the anchor role and he is more consistent than Sehwag against Pakistan and Yuvraj always play good against Pakistan and he is due for a big score. He might score a quick 60 - 70 and thats good enough to change the course of the game. And Yousuf Pathan, like Sakhti said, is riding on his luck so I am not banking on him, whatever he scores would be a bonus. Irfan Pathan will be playing tomorrow and he is pretty consistent against Pakistan both in bowling and batting. He uses good slower deliveries and bowls intelligently. Its a shame that RP and Goni did not bowl much today so the chances are tomorrow one of them would be replaced by Ishant Sharma.
To say that India will win the Asia cup for the 5th time with authority is easier said than done, the bouyont Sri Lanka is not a piece of cake either. So it would be hard to predict who will lift the cup? A good diplomat will think twice before saying nothing and a good mathematician like theossa would say between India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka there is a 33.33% winning chance. So whoever will get that 0.001% will be the actual winner of the cup. See you have to be a theoenstien to work out all the probabilities to arrive at a solution.
June 26, 2008 at 6:54 am
Many different range of thoughts have been put here … me too would like to contribute to some of them .. but first with the schedule …. i am confused by this statement of javed
.. but this time they are playing to retain the number one spot in their group so that they can play against Bangladesh and walk through the semis into the final.
Isn’t this indo-pak match useless in terms of affecting further result .. since we dont have semis in asia cup and all four teams will play against each other in second round ?
Now on captaincy
I believe that a good captain should be shrewd and not arrogant in “thinking” ( not in appearance or in behaviour ) …. he got to accept many minor defeats in the field to achieve the major goal that is winning the match. Say for example … if some field setting or particular strategy is not working for him although he has given full thought to this … he shud be able to cope with this kinda minor defeat and shud promptly take appropriate action. We have seen lots of arrogant captains in the past or even in present … who say after defeat that “our bowler didnt bowl well or our batters didn’t perform” … this is rediculus as far as captaincy is concerned … this is captain’s job to get good performance out of every individual, he cant mock on his own job. Many people may disagree me on this .. but if captain has to say something to his players .. best place is the dressing room. For me the best captain was Cronjye (in my life time) … he made his team looked like unbeatable (atleast in odis) and was very adaptable. i dont know if steve waugh accepts this or not …. but he learned a lot from Cronjye … atleast the adaptability part as i percieved, far from them on tv. Having said many captains enjoyed their arrogance like captaincy with good wining record … constraint was u got to have a bunch of good players. In sub-continent we have produced lots of good players but alas! .. very few good captains. Ranatunga was one of those “few good captains”.
About India’s fielding
They are still missing kaif undoubtedly on the field (not on the pitch). He was the best fielder india has produced … more importantly he inspires others. Take the example of raina … he was very good in kaif time but we are not seeing the same raina on the field. I am not blaming him to not put 100% .. he always does .. but the result is far different now. Yuvraj is not the same fielder he was once upon a time …. he is still a good catcher … but his ground fielding dipped a quite low. I wud like to see sehwag on point and send yuvraj to midoff(like he was in IPL) …. train gambhir as a slip fielder .. this way fielding will hit the right combination. I dont agree with sakthi’s comment on sharma’s fielding .. he is far better than Y pathan in the field.
About dhoni’s shots
I agree with javed that he plays dangerous shots that can cause many strains in his body as we often see. Although he has cut down many of those air born offside lofts over cover but still he has many shots that can potentially shorten his cricketing life. In aus he played one pull shot and pulled his side strain … there are many such instances. But u cant transform a dhoni to a rohit sharma , since i believe that shamra is one of few beautiful players we have in international cricket. Its another matter that he is struggling for runs now a days.
About India’s playing 11
After seeing some of the portions of yesterday match … its high time for dhoni to five new ball to irfan .. praveen kumar is not doing wonders on karachi pitch … irfan off the late is just in the team for the “balance” like afridi in team for “bowling” … his primary job is to take wickets and he can only with the new ball in odis. Rest praveen … and play irfan, rp and ishant along with chawla. Rohit sharma is going complacent now a days as many told him that his place is fixed as no 3 …. change his oder and promote raina at no 3 … at 4 yuvraj .. 5 dhoni .. 6 sharma and 7 Y pathan … though yusuf order shud be floter.
Javed,
I never did reverse psychology … always want and put my money on indian team. Though i like to see opposition giving decent fight to indian team accept aus.
June 26, 2008 at 7:33 am
Your analysis is spot on. All the three giants have equal chance of winning the cup.
Javed,
There is no reverse psychology in what I wrote about the Indian team. Being an Indian I always want my team to win but the Indian team does have many loop-holes and one of them is their bowling. That is the truth.
India has one of the strongest batting line-ups in the contemporary cricket but at the same time their bowling is very mediocre. Everyone knows about it. To be unbeatable, you need to be good in all departments. Fielding has improved after IPL saga but still not at top-notch. India can win matches here and there, but not always, that too with this bowling line-up. FULL STOP.
June 26, 2008 at 8:50 am
timely thread on the Indian team. i think this thread raises many imporant issues about india. its quite comprehensive so let me discuss the points it does not bring out:
i dont know why people are saying today’s match is unimportant? a pakistan vs india match is always important, it doesnt matter if its a final. hoping pakistan and india to play in the final of a major series every time is too idealistic a demand in my opinion. i still feel this match is imporant and i will watch it simply because the winning side will gain confidence and momentum will be with them. although i obviously want India to win, if pakistan win the confidence they gather will be really help them because it will be “two wins in a row”.
also, i agree with Sakthi and i feel most people on this blog tend to over-rate the indian team. being young can be good but also bad. see now India doesnt have sourav, sachin or dravid or laxman. they can only rely on the experience of sehwag, yuvraj and 1 or 2 others. so in a pressure situation youth can cock up. if you think about how uthappa and rohit sharma are not in brilliant form you can see the situation does not look too bright for india.
also, one of the bloggers “Theossa” has often said (and very correctly too) that if sehwag and gambhir can be dismissed cheaply the indian team is likely to lose. i get the feeling pakistan will win today if sehwag and gambhir get out for less than 25 each.
but lets see what happens
June 26, 2008 at 9:57 am
Pakistan won the toss and elected to bat. India have made a big mistake by playing only 4 regular bowlers. Let us wait and see how it works.
June 26, 2008 at 10:08 am
Amit P. Over all you have made very good analysis.
First of all my apologies for the misunderstanding or the assumption that I made about the tournament i.e., without seeing the tournament fixture, I assumed that after this it will be a knock-out programme, hence I thought that they will play for the number one spot. In fact in the previous thread I did mention that India and Pakistan will play against each other for at least two or may be three times. Then corrected it to only two because of this wrong assumption. Although Asia Cup has always been like this, but the recent Kitply Cup tri-series is the reason for me to think on those lines. Anyways, thanks for correcting me and it forced me to check out the tournament fixture.
Now, on the captaincy issue and other points. Before we talk about the aspects of captaincy which makes him stand out as a leader, I would like to say that everyone has a different view and reasons to choose, appreciate and admire a captain for his qualities. To me the name of Hansie Cronje or Azharuddin does not click as good captains is because their image was tarnished by those betting scandals, as they say all is well that ends well. Their career ended very badly especially Cronje’s in fact his untimely death is still a mystery. And for me the best captain ever is Imran Khan - there was a touch of arrogance in him but, that is a much needed tonic for the Pakistanis.
For my older cousins they consider Mansour Ali Khan Pataudi as the best captain India has ever produced. I don’t know much about that but I reckon Ganguly as a very shrewed captain. And the most shrewed of all is Ricky Ponting. I agree that a captain must be shrewed and not arrogant in behaviour especially on the field. As a Pakistani if I criticize any Indian player purely on the basis of sports, it is often misunderstood or considered as sour grapes and got a lot of criticism and flak from Indian supporters, whereas my intention was not to condemn them but only to highlight certain strengths and weaknesses in them. When I do that to Pakistani players its not that serious because they assume that we have the right to criticize our own players. But, sometimes it is considered as a regional bias, we can’t help it. Because, then it comes to the level of personal bias. There is no ending.
Anyways, It was Gavaskar and later Tendulkar who were and are world’s best batsmen but, whatever reasons their priorities were more for themselves than for the team. Tendulkar refused captaincy after realizing that he cannot concentrate on batting, Gavaskar played politics with Kapil. Lets not get bogged down into this subject on this thread. I know a lot of Indians don’t like Ganguly because of the politics he played but he was not a chicken, his captaincy did not effect his batting. Dravid is a real gentleman and I have always admired him as a player, captain and as an individual and have a lot of respect for him. He was like this from the beginning, very humble and a team player, always gave credit to his players and never criticized his player’s weakness, that we lost because of so and so’s bad performance.
Coming to Dhoni, I have been watching him since he came into the limelight i.e., when he scored his first century (148 was it? ) against Pakistan at Jamshedpur. Prior to that I had read about him and his scores at the under-19 in Kenya etc. and knew that he is a hard hitter. Since he became the captain of the Indian side, he has changed, he has changed for better. Perhaps his much talked about image manager is helping him in correcting his image. He got a shorter hair cut, despite the fact that President Musharraf appreciated his long hair or his hairstyle. He stopped squeaking “Ayeeee” from behind the stumps on every ball. Stopped appealing unnecessary on every ball. Stopped making weired comments from behind the stumps, in short he has improved a lot.
His body language has changed completely. His pre and post match speeches are well thought about and well presented or delivered. He seems to be more balanced now. As regards his game he plays with a lot of responsibility now, it is his awkward, unpleasing and hideous style of batting that bothers me. Thats why I suggested he should play golf. They teach you how to keep your body under control when you take a swing. Some people are natural like Lara and Rohit Sharma but, its an art that can be acquired and Dhoni must learn this not only for us as viewers but, for his own body’s sake which shakes and takes so many jolts that he could get side strains, did anyone notice he played and missed two consecutive balls in the last over against HK yesterday? Then, he was seen rubbing his side muscles. So, it does have an impact when he plays and misses the shot.
On your batting order, I think you are absolutely right in shuffling the batting order, that may be good for the team and not for the individual. Its often seen that when a player is pushed down and the team performs well, he seldom gets an opportunity to play and if that happens for a few times, then the player who was not performing at the top is not getting opportunity to play and then not only his bad patch continues, his focus and faith in himself starts to diminish. It happened with so many players, like Afridi, Irfan Pathan, Mohammad Hafeez, Kamran Akmal, Shoaib Malik etc., and if they do it with Rohit and Yousuf Pathan the result would be the same. The player starts wondering where and how can he fit into the team?
I won’t hesitate in admitting that Australia despite all their whining they have maintained a policy that once they recognize the strength of a player they keep on providing him ample opportunities without yo-yo-ing him up and down the batting order. Thats because Ponting himself believe that he has to play at number 3 and even if he fails a few times he comes back very strongly and thats why he is so good. In a few cases India and Pakistan both have done the same for e.g., Sehwag, they knew that he cannot play at number 6 or 7 that would be a total waste, so they gave him enough chances and finally dropped him, that helped him seeing himself as others see him, meaning he watched his own videos several times, corrected his follies and came back strongly. It was the Australians who spotted his weakness in playing a cut shot over the point. They placed a fielder in the deep and on a large ground its not easy to hit a six over the point. Anyways, I hope you understand my point.
Regarding reverse psychology it was just a light hearted comment as most people are superstitious and like to jinx so neither you nor Sakhti should take my comment that seriously. One of my cousins in the USA, he is an ardent fan of New York Rangers and he has started to believe that whenever he sees the match live, the NY Rangers don’t win. So, he records every single game his team plays and then when he finds out that NY Rangers has won, he watches the game otherwise, he simply delete that match. Weirdo! But, thats him.
The match has just started and I am off to the TV. Pakistan team is unchanged, Malik as usual commited himself to open with Butt. India are without Irfan, RP is in and he is bowling with fire against Malik. Good that Rohit Sharma will play at number 3. They should not change him, he can fight back, he is a cool customer.
June 26, 2008 at 10:14 am
LS visitors, your comments will be updated almost immediately today during this Pakistan vs India match.
Malik is struggling against RP Singh at the moment. It’s not a good sign!
June 26, 2008 at 10:20 am
Oye well played hook shot Malk Saab!
June 26, 2008 at 10:49 am
Pakistan is 27 in 11th over
Wah what a fcuking start on a ‘bone-dry’ / ‘Takhtaa’ wicket by Malak Da Butt.
June 26, 2008 at 10:55 am
Karachi’s crowd is looking quite paindoo
June 26, 2008 at 11:09 am
So no nice gals at the terraces?…what a shame…Butta…how is the match going!!!
It looks like if not King Kong today then they seem to be facing the bowling from Goliaths!!!
June 26, 2008 at 11:18 am
Some aspects of Malik’s knock today remind me of how he used to play before he became captain. I hope he is regaining his touch. If he starts playing like that again he will be an asset for Pakistan.
Awas
Some of the girls are nice there, but I bet they are originally from Punjab
The match has just started to be exciting for Pakistan because Malik and Butt have started being aggressive now. For the first 10 overs or so they were very quiet.
Looks like Pakistan can post a respectable total provided wickets are in hand.
June 26, 2008 at 11:26 am
Javed A Khan
Sir can we have some analysis from you please?
June 26, 2008 at 11:30 am
Mailk and Butt are slowly accelerating the run rate. I think they are just waiting for the spinners to come on as both of them are very good against spin bowling. Remember India is playing one bowler short.
Score of around 280-300 is on the card.
June 26, 2008 at 11:41 am
dhoni became defensive and did not introduce spin until the 20th over. this is concerning because spinners have taken plenty of wickets so far in this Asia cup.
i would have introduced piyush around the 14-15th over. but dhoni didnt see the situation so well.
June 26, 2008 at 11:54 am
Butt could have played that shot anywhere but he played straight into the fielder’s hands. All over this has been a disappointing knock because of the strike rate of just under 55.
June 26, 2008 at 12:08 pm
This heroic innings from Malik vs India means that he will stay in the side for a long, long time.
Salman Butt’s generally consistent performances against India also mean that he will stay in the team for a long time.
June 26, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Dhoni will definitely feel he is missing his fifth specialist bowler now. I have long maintained that India needs to go in with 5 specialists, not 4 because the Indian batting is so strong that it won’t be a weak batting attack if one less batsman plays. It is nice to know such views are echoed by Rohit and Sakthi on LS.
June 26, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Malik is playing a gem of an inning and Younis is just torturing spinners with his reverse sweeps. If Pak keeps wickets for the last ten overs, then they can score 300+. As we all know Indians are good chasers so this one will be a close contest. I don’t know why players from both teams perform a bit extra when play eachother, rivalry I suppose.
I’m on computer so can’t see the “Lahori Chicks” as Awas chuckled it but I’m sure all the Pathans in the satdium are gazing and enjoying the pretty looks of Malik and Dhoni (that inlcudes Javed but from a TV screen -:)
Javed, I’ll predict a final between India and Pakistan. Sri Lanka always underperforms against Pakistan and I don’t see them beating India. Pak needs Asia Cup more than any other team to prove a point whereas India wants vengence. Whole Indian team is in good spirists but Kunal made a good point that young players are susceptible to lose their nerves under pressure. So it will be interesting to see how they’ll reposnse to an adverse situation. Right now game on.
June 26, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Forget about India and Pakistan match guys
See what UAE is doing to mighty Sri Lankans. They are 190 for 6 wickets.
And my brother, Mohammed Touqir just finished with fantastic figures of 10-0-44-2. He got a catch also
June 26, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Shall we say…Malk Saab zind-a-baad…Butta, but chawal maar giya against Chawla.
At the end, it doesn’t matter who the person is as long as one does well for Pakistan…that’s mainly what matters. So, as Theossa says quite aptly:
“hell if a donkey scores centuries and win us matches I’m for it”…were you referring to our papoo faced Inzi, by the way??? Just you remember, someone from the crowd once called him “Alloo” and the guy nearly ended up in hospital…so, you better watch out…
Anyways, as Malk Saab seems to have come back into form, I hope so does Afridi with his batting too. No matter what we say that his batting is like his ‘side business’…like ‘moon lighting’ but deep down most of us still yearn for his devastating batting which he is surly capable of.
Khansahab
This is why I wished India to win the last final to hasten Malk Saab’s ouster along with Butter Fingered keeper which I thought was on his way out anyway after that leak. He (Malk saab) is not so bad though to have him as a player.
June 26, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Younis is such a good player- if only he was more consistent! His class can be seen by the fact that he takes less time to settle down and start playing his shots compared to Yousuf and Misbah. If I remember correctly even Inzamam used to take more time to get settled down.
June 26, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Afridi should be sent next when and IF someone gets out. He does better when Pakistan are at a position of strength. In the match against King Kongs, when he came out Pakistan were in a very precarious situation.
June 26, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Why the hell has Yousuf come out to bat now? It should have been Afridi.
June 26, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Malik Time! I’m glad he found his form back and that too with a bang. You go Malik, I hope he is just exhausted and nothing serious.
Khansahab
At the end of his career Younis will be named among the likes of Minadad, Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan, Inzamam, and Yousuf. He is simply a world class player, like Late Bob Woolmer praised him as the most enthusiastic and the hardest working player he had seen. He needs to adapt to ODI quick. He is not bad in Twenty20 though.
Awas
I would never call Inzi a donkey. Did you know he belongs to a “peer” family? I won’t dare to mess with Saints’ offspring as you know I respect those good fellas. Also, Multan is a very special place for me (99 saints). I literally meant a donkey, like the one in Shrek movie.
June 26, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Khansahab
Our Javed is a true enthusiast…glued to his TV for India/Pak match. Until the innings is over he won’t be wasting his time writing.
Misbah and Yousuf were both wrong type to send out at this stage. It should have been Afridi and then Tanvir at this stage. India has slowed down the scoring. The idiot Malk never learns…he shouldn’t be so rigid.
June 26, 2008 at 1:24 pm
khansahab
I have been watching the match on TV not on the computer so I was lazy to get up from my couch and type out something. BUTTTT, now I have to say something after YK is out.
Malik must be happy to have scored 125 retired hurt ‘coz of his nazuki or nazakat but the initial loss of 40 - 50 runs in the first 15 overs along with Salman Butt will prove very costly. Because right now the total is 230 for 2 and only 8 overs left and both new batsmen have to settle in and play big shots later had those initial overs were capitalized the score would have been 270 - 280 for 2 and things would have been different.
Now it is up to Yousuf and Misbah to propel the score taking chances otherwise they will be scoring under 300 which is not a defendable total against the formidable Indian batting side. You will see how Sehwag and Gambhir will start. Yousuf Pathan was unlucky as Chawla and Gambhir both dropped sitters in the same over, even a run out chance was missed in the same over.
June 26, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Awas
Let us excuse Malik for all his idiocies today. He played a king’s knock today from every point of view. He was positive, timed it brilliantly, played in the gaps, and did not let anyone dominate him. It was Malik at his best and as I have said before, it reminded me of 2005/2006 and the early part of 2007 when he was my favourite player in the team. (sob)
June 26, 2008 at 1:28 pm
M Yousuf should not have come in at this stage. Pakistan is going to fall short by at least 20 runs if he stays till the end.
June 26, 2008 at 1:28 pm
LOL Awas
tum nay pukara aur hum chalay aye
Yeah, I will write more later. I was also watching the girls and khansahab you have no idea about who is from where, so you should not talk on the subject which is not your domain
Most of them are chitki pitkis especially those asking Malik to marry her (them) but there was a glimpse of a tall Goddess dressed in white. I have to rewind it later. Take care.
June 26, 2008 at 2:02 pm
The 299 score is a good 25 runs short but I’ll take it, thanks to more than a few drop catches by Indian fielders. They look out of gas playing back to back games on consecutive days.
Munir:
Congrates on your brother’s performance. We are proud of you Mohammad Tauqir.
June 26, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Had Afridi, Alam and Tanvir been sent before Yousuf and Misbah, Pakistan would have crossed 320. I am confident of that.
But as I said earlier we should excuse Malik for all “Malak” behaviour and decisions today.
(”Malak”- common pronunciation of “Malik” by many Pakistanis, is also commonly pronounced as “Malk”. “Saab” often comes after “Malak”)
That little tidbit for those Indian bloggers who don’t understand why we use Malik, Malak and Malk.
June 26, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Pakistan are 30 - 40 runs short on a flat track which is good for batting. By the end of the second power play India bowled 3 maiden overs, two of them by RP Singh. If Pakistan wins everything will appear as fine, planned, well orchestrated and based on the same strategy that won them the Kitply Cup. And, if they don’t then this slow scoring in the beginning will come under fire still there will be a lot of people who will defend this strategy because Malik has scored a hundred. I am not being critical towards Malik per se, but this is what I see. I will be very happy if Pakistan wins but, its not gonna be easy for them unless their bowlers deliver the right kinda goods.
Looking at the pitch its not easy to get a wicket and Pakistan has lost only 4 wickets, if India plays sensibly they won’t loose too many wickets either. The only hope as I have said is, if and only IF the fast bowlers take a couple of early wickets. In Karachi the new ball swings especially during the evening. But, they seems to have certainly lost one option and that is Shoaib Malik’s bowling. I doubt whether he will play and even if he does after recuperating from dehydration and fatigue he may not bowl, he has a good excuse now. So, Fawad Alam will have to bowl his full quota of 10 overs.
Watching Chawla and other spinners struggling, I doubt even Shahid Afridi would be effective on this track. He charges aggressively and attacks through out his spell ONLY when he gets a wicket in his first one or two overs. By the time he comes in to bowl if the fast bowlers have not done the initial damage, conservatively speaking India might score 70-80 runs very comfortably in 15 overs or even more. Whereas, Pakistan struggled to score only 26 in 10 and 42 in 15 overs. Thats why I feel that Pakistan are atleast 30-40 runs short here. Lets see what happens, right now its innings break.
June 26, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Sensational catch from Misbah the acting captain. LOL little Fawad climed on Misbah after that catch. The match has become alive.
June 26, 2008 at 2:46 pm
So much is being said on India Pakistan game that I am almost out of words here
While on the other hand, UAE is taking Sri Lanka to task.
The game is on
I guess
theossa … thanks for your well wishes, yes he bowled well today
I agree we are a bit short on total, firstly due to slow start by Butt and Malak, then Misbah also missing, and finally Afridi not clicking (for the Millionth time)
June 26, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Sarfraz is doing a fare job, behind the wickets.
His ‘chirpy’ style reminds me of Moin Khan.
June 26, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Munir Sahab,
Congrats to Tauqir Bhai for a fine bowling performance. I hope he continues the same way and gathers a lot of plaudits and recognition inshallah.
All the best to him and UAE!
June 26, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I said, Pakistan has lost one bowling option in Malik and now they have lost two with Umar Gul out of the game after bowling only 8 balls and WHAT A STUNNING CATCH FROM MISBAH? I think it is so far the best of the tournament. Like we say in Urdu, “hath may chipak gayee” thats exactly what happened and that too in the wrong hand, his left and reaction time was only 0.253 seconds. But, this one catch may not win the match for Pakistan because they have crisis on hand.
I must appreciate the decision from Dhoni, instead of sending Rohit Sharma he sent another left hander Raina. Sehwag’s role has changed after Gambhir’s departure and he will play cautiously now. But, he cannot be contained for long, as long as he stays he is always a threat to any opposition.
India’s fielding (stopping the ball) was good but they dropped 4 catches, Chawla, Gambhir, Raina and Ishant whereas, Pakistan’s ground fielding is sloppy and throws are wild, the only chance they got from Gambhir they grabbed it. Pakistan scored 26 in 10 and India has just scored 26 in 5 overs. That will be the difference.
June 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm
UAE is on its way, so far
They are 53 for 1 at the end of 8 overs, while they require 238 in 42 overs @ 5.66 with 9 wickets in hand
June 26, 2008 at 2:58 pm
It is even stevens at the moment because Pakistan have lost their strike bowler Umar Gul and if Malik would have been able to bowl it would have been a bonus. Meanwhile India has lost their strike batsman Gambhir but Sehwag is still there.
June 26, 2008 at 3:01 pm
The difference between Dhoni and Malik is that when Gambhir was dismissed early on Dhoni sent Raina. Why? Because India still have a left/right hand batting combination PLUS Raina is in top form and confidence having scored a quick century in the last game.
This is how youngsters should be treated.
June 26, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Not only do I believe Waqar was a better bowler than Wasim, I also think he is a better commentator.
June 26, 2008 at 3:32 pm
khansahab
Waqar is definitely an amusing commentator but not better. Wasim though has acquired a fake accent over the years but both of them are lacking in basics.
There you go, I said b4 that Afridi won’t be effective on this track, already two sixes in his over.
Malik is sitting topless besides his coach instead, he should wear his top and get on to the field because Misbah is not taking up the role of captaincy.
Amit.P
I will take back my words about Raina, I said expecting another 100 from him within 24 hours is asking too much, but the way he is playing now he is already 47 in 33 balls, its possible that he will make a back to back century because Pakistan’s bowling is in tatters right now.
While Pakistan made 47 in 15 overs India has made 100 in 14 overs.
June 26, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Looks like India is going to win this match. Hats off to Sehwag and Raina. Even though Pakistan’s bowling in indeed “in tatters” as Javed A Khan says, it takes a special effort to rattle a complete bowling attack. There is so much talent in Indian batting.
I am disturbed at Rao who has shown a bit of attitude today to the Indian batsmen. Usually he keeps to himself and that quality distinguishes him from the other Pakistani bowlers.
June 26, 2008 at 3:41 pm
It’s about time Javed utter some words and jinx Raina and Sehwag otherwise they’ll keep molesting Pak attack. India should win it comfortably now, bowling seams harmless and Pak has no clue how to contain these batsmen. Khansahb it’s time we find an escape goat for this match, how about a slow innings from Butt? “Damn it Butt you cost us the match”!
June 26, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Theossa
Yes Butt has to be blamed certainly. I don’t understand why they are not trying Fawad Alam now. They should give him a few overs. All other bowlers have been tried and Tanvir has been brought back into the attack.
They have nothing to lose because the Indian batting is looking very comfortable already. So it’s time to hand the ball over to Fawad.
June 26, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Munir:
Good fight back by U.A.E. Amjad ali is showing some heart but needs a partnership. I hope they pull a upset here but will be a daunting task.
June 26, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Khansahab:
“I am agree”, Fawad should be coming soon but if I was Malik I would try Younis Khan, experiment with him and see if he takes the wicket in power play.
June 26, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Yeah…Butta…its rain from Raina…
June 26, 2008 at 3:58 pm
It has been a triumph of improvisation and intellect. Dhoni sent in Raina for these reasons:
1) he wants the youngster to build on his confidence
2) left hander complementing a right hander at the crease
3) good form and quickfire century in previous match
and how has this worked! He is slaughtering every Pakistani bowler and looks like he will be India’s Man of the Match.
Meanwhile someone is hellbent on deteriorating whatever little confidence Fawad Alam has. He has still not been introduced into the attack.
June 26, 2008 at 4:11 pm
So finally Mr Alam comes on when India has already reached half the target. So it did not surprise me the well settled batsmen went after him. He should have been tried just after when Afridi was first brought on. It doesn’t matter now because it’s already too late.
June 26, 2008 at 4:14 pm
theossa
are you willing to trade off Natalie for a jinx? Sochlo aur phir bolo.
khansahab, no bowler from this current team can take wickets at the moment, the equilibrium is disturbed after Umar Gul’s departure.
I won’t blame Butt alone, because the captain was there with him throughout the time they both scored slowly only to cement their place. Like Awas says, Raina is Raining Sixes and fours. I think India will finish off this match under 40 overs and that will be some relief for the Pakistani, players, spectators and us viewers.
June 26, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Let’s call it “The karachi massacre”. Both karachi bowlers were targeted too, Afridi and Fawad.
Javed, screw this match man, I wanna keep my Natalie. Matches come and go but Natalie is forever.
June 26, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Thoessa, come again…screw who ;)-
June 26, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I suggest all of you should visit your chicks after today’s game to relieve some stress. Abdul go to Karina, Javed go to Zinta, Khansahab visit Emmanuelle, Awas visit the Queen, Munir stay the f*uck where you are or else bhabhi will kick your ass back to Peshawar.
June 26, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Pakistani bowlers got raped, tortured, molested.
Yes the psychological advantage went to India when Umar Gul left the field. But I doubt Pakistanis could have been able to stop the sheer flow of runs even if Gul was bowling.
Sehwag and Raina have toyed with the bowling and the surprising thing is, it’s not Tendulkar or Ganguly who are playing like this, it is Sehwag and Raina.
What happened to Gul and was he not match fit? Again the inconsistency and lack of quality of Pakistan has been exposed. The two most talented bowlers Asif and Akhtar are drug addicts unfortunately and lack the character and temperament to stay in the side for whatever goddamned reason.
It is situations like these where you feel like saying, sack the whole team and make a new team with youngsters from the domestic circuit. Start from scratch, give way to a new beginning.
June 26, 2008 at 4:40 pm
theossa
I thought you will agree to trade-off hence I jinxed him. But, you are not a fair person you wanted to have a free lunch. Never mind, I will take care of that little Portman later. Dhoni has sent another left hander in Yuvraj.
Amit. P
Sorry about that, but Raina played very well, he deserved a hundred but what a way to go? Sehwag got his and should be happy.
Commentators are saying 10 more minutes and Malik can bowl. Do you guys think he will bowl? I doubt, because he has seen Afridi, Fawad Alam and Butt got thrashed and may be, may be, he will bowl if there are two new batsmen at the crease. Because, Afridi got all his thrashing in the first 4 overs 36 runs and then in the next 3 he gave 17 and thats because he is giving more flight to the ball. Anyways, the interest in this match is only a formality now because Pakistan has not only virtually, but actually lost this game.
June 26, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I suggest all of you should visit your chicks after today’s game to relieve some stress. Abdul go to Karina, Javed go to Zinta, Khansahab visit Emmanuelle, Awas visit the Queen, Munir stay the f*uck where you are or else bhabhi will kick your ass back to Peshawar.
Here we go, Khansahab is pissed. Khansahab this team is composed of some the best the domestic system has to offer. I don’t know who’ll take their place. Today is India’s day and you can also predict the winner of Asia Cup, India all the way. Btw Sehwag and Raina are far more aggressive than Tendu and Gangu. Like I said go visit Emmanuelle my man and feel good.
June 26, 2008 at 4:48 pm
The Karachi crowd stayed silent generally but some of them gave a standing ovation to Sehwag on this century. It was a good sight to see. Of course I support Pakistan and want them to win, but a player with such talent and greatness should receive no less than a standing ovation.
June 26, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Theossa
As you have distracted me from all that good cricket…this “come again” reminds me of this:
The new Pope was having a shower. Although he is very strict about the celibacy rules, he occasionally felt the need to exercise the right wrist, and this was one of these occasions.
Just as he reached the Papal climax he saw a photographer taking a picture of the holy seed flying through the air. “Hold on a minute” said the Pope. “You can’t do that. You’ll destroy the reputation of the Catholic Church.”.
“This picture is my lottery win” said the photographer. “I’ll be financially secure for life.”
So, the Pope offered to buy the camera off the photographer, and after lots of negotiation, they eventually arrived at a figure of two million quid. The Pope then dried himself off, and headed off with his new camera. He met his housekeeper, who spotted the camera.
“That looks like a really good camera,” she said, “how much did it cost you?” “Two million quid” replied the Pope. “TWO MILLION QUID!” said the housekeeper…”They must have seen you coming!”
June 26, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Good to see so many comments coming in one day. I was browsing on cricinfo and saw PakSpin deserted even with the new thread there are only 4 comments and one of them is of Javed A. Khan’s which is something to keep Mr. Kamran Abbassi quiet. First his thread is way out of interest because people are more keen to discuss Asia Cup and not some moral and racial issues related to Zimbabwe. Therefore, I give you guys the due to come up with yet another new thread on Asia Cup with an Indian perspective and you got attention from a lot of Indian bloggers. I would suggest you guys to upload a visit meter or whatever to show how many hits you got in a day or so far, because not all people who visit the blog write or comment, but they definitely read, like I used to read before I started to write.
Since there is no interest in this match right now as India is winning it very comfortably its too late for me to stay on-line and comment more, I will perhaps read your comments later tomorrow and until India plays against either Sri Lanka or Pakistan I would like to say good bye and thanks to you all for keeping this wonderful blog so alive.
June 26, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Hanumanth Rao
Thanks for your support. We really appreciate it!
June 26, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Good joke on priest Awas, it seemed politically incorrect though, lol. Here is one from me. A biologist girl was on a field survey in a jungle and she ran into Tarzan. The six packs of Tarzan’s abdominals and the romantic atmosphere of jungle made her horny. She asked the Tarzan, “Since there is no woman in the jungle how do you relieve yourself?” Tarzan replied, “Oh, I just visit a young tree, find a hole, and stick it in”. The girl got excited; she took off her clothes, lay on the ground, pointed at her sweet spot and asked Tarzan, “Just think of it as a hole in the young tree and stick it in”. In reply Tarzan kicked her at the sweet spot; she screamed with pain, “Why did you do that?” Tarzan replied, “Checking for the bees”.
June 26, 2008 at 5:38 pm
theossa …
LOL @ scape-goat and chicks.
Nothing for moi ? Poor me
I am also sad about Pakistan’s defeat Yaar, and more for UAE too, so I should get not one but two ‘chicks’
Understand my ‘dookhraa’ too.
Anyways, if nothing else, at least I can offer my expert opinions to Khan Sahab about how to ‘take care’ of Emmanuelle
June 26, 2008 at 5:55 pm
LOL Gemini Munir, I bet you can teach us all not just Khansahab. Well, at this age Awas won’t function, a couple of Viagra might do the trick for him or he should also carry “Majoon” in his wallet like Asif did, lol.
June 26, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Well the match is over, as expected Pakistan team has confirmed that their win over India in the Kitply Cup final was a fluke. Earlier in the same tri-series they lost the round match to India by 140 runs, the biggest margin ever. Today, they were outplayed by the Indian batting line up and they scored 301/4 in 42 overs. And there was no contest, it was a one sided match.
It goes to prove that even if Pakistan had scored those 30-40 extra runs they would have still lost because, they gave up as soon as Umar Gul walked out of the field after bowling total 8 balls. Earlier, it was the Captain Malak who demoralized the team by sitting inside with the coach and came out later to lead only upon hearing some ‘laanat malaamat,’ from the commentators.
Never mind his mediocre bowling, he could have at least been on the field to take control of the side, when he came out the damage was already done. He should have immediately come at Umar Gul’s departure. This weak meek attitude of Malik combined with his uncanny arrogance can be seen from the excerpt that I am quoting below from the post-match press conference. When asked about Pakistan’s recent performances and whether morale is down? He replied bizarrely: “Are you sitting in my heart? The Pakistan team is famous for comebacks. My form, if it wasn’t good, at least I am still the best all-rounder as far as I know.”” WOW, what arrogance!
Osman Samiuddin in his latest article on cricinfo which he wrote after the press conference highlighted Malik’s attitude after that remark he made at the press conference, he wrote: “Board officials and Malik himself insist that he is in the team as an all-rounder. Yet against the teams that matter - South Africa, India and Sri Lanka - Malik has bowled just 49 overs in 16 matches. If three overs per match is the criteria, then Virender Sehwag is a bona fide all-rounder.”
Even Imran Khan has finally spoken about Malik’s attitude and he wrote in today’s Hindustan Times: “A captain can only earn respect if he is doing his bit as a player, Shoaib Malik is a good cricketer and seems to have a sensible head. However, the question is, does he automatically select himself as a batsman? Unfortunately, the answer is no, and till he changes that he cannot lead with authority.”
Malik not only considers himself as the best all-rounder of Pakistan but, he assumes that he is also the best captain who have won 13 matches in a row - he gulps the sentence without chewing that, those wins were against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe - and he is very proud of his own performance.
Jab top pay ullu baitha hai anjaam-e-gulistaan kya hoga?
khansahab
you have been extremely generous in praising Malik simply because you saw that achievement in bits and not as a whole picture. I blame him for the slow start and I also blame him for sitting back and deploring rather than coming out - which he eventually did - and for NOT leading from the front. And I also see him as a dimwit dolt to blab such words at the post match press conference. I have nothing personal against him, I am seeing him as a player, as a captain and as an ambassador and once again, he failed today despite scoring a 125 retired hurt! The word hurt should be removed and he must simply retire from Captaincy because that is not his forte. P.E.R.I.O.D.
June 26, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Javed A Khan,
I understand what you are saying but I was praising Malik’s batting today in general, I was not praising his captaincy or his all over role in the team as an all rounder. His innings today was as good as any batsman’s would be.
We all know that he is a poor captain and even poorer ambassador for the country- no doubt about that.
For some reason I feel Misbah’s place in the team has caused more problems than there were before he became an automatic selection. Younis, Yousuf and Malik were automatic selections before Misbah came. Having 4 primarily middle orders players as an automatic selection is risky business because that prevents the inclusion of more bowlers and all rounders further down the order.
Akmal is Pakistan’s first choice keeper. His batting as an opener is worse than his batting in the lower order. He can definitely be used as an opener in order to faciliate a Fawad Alam or Mansoor Amjad or Abdur Rehman lower down, but then this placement would need to have some element of permanence. Otherwise he should be used in the lower order and someone else should be discovered to open.
I used to rant on Pakspin all the time that Malik needs to bat in the top 3. I remember saying so many times, when Malik can average 40 odd at no 3 and Younis only averages 32, why can’t Malik be used at no 3 and Younis at no 4? Today someone revealed an interesting statistic- Malik in the top 4 in the line up averages 44. Whereas his normal average is about 34, so you can see the difference here. So Malik should either open, or take Younis’s place, or he should assume the role of someone like Yousuf, as a very responsible batsman playing at no 4. So there are 3 scenarios and there are problems with each:
1) Malik as opener: According to my judgement, this will be a good move. That is because despite not being a sound opener Malik has still done a better job as opener than Pakistan’s specialist openers. The problem is he will be prone to inconsistency and will probably not perform against good teams. But that is the same for other openers too. So that should not be a disqualification. What prevents Malik from opening is that now he is a captain and usually captains unless they are exceptionally skilled like Dravid or Ponting, want to bat around no 4-6 because they feel they should be responsible for the middle order and look after the batting in case there is an earlier collapse.
2) Malik at no 3: This is the position Malik has been most consistent in. The problem is that if he starts batting there, what will happen to Younis? In this analysis I am making the (very likely) assumption that the big 4 of Pakistan’s line up (Younis, Yousuf, Misbah and Malik) will stay as automatic selections for some time to come. However Malik will have to take responsibility in this role and he will be unwilling to do so because the no 3 batsman should be the best batsman in the team and has the role of the backbone of the batting line up.
3) Malik at no 4: Again, we have to ask what will happen to Yousuf? He can either go at no 3 (a position he averages 55 in by the way) or he can go further down but such a move will not do justice to his talent. Also if Younis starts batting at no 6 because the no 3, 4 and 5 positions are occupied by Malik, Yousuf and Misbah, that won’t do justice to Younis’s talent and he might as well not be in the team.
So all this is a huge dilemma. My question to everyone is- Has Misbah’s inclusion really helped the Pakisteam team? Please don’t assume that I am saying Misbah is not a good player. He is a good player, he is educated and has a good inspiring personality. He is a good candidate for captaincy and will also be a good ambassador for the country but I just feel his position is wasted because by the time he comes into bat the main batsmen have been dismissed anyway or he finds he does not have many balls left to build his innings, so has to resort to slogging which again does not do justice to his talent. Unless Pakistan is playing Australia, England or South Africa (and that too outside Pakistan) and there is a situation where Pakistan are like 100/5 and Misbah begins a rescue mission, I don’t think Misbah is needed in the team.
Today Malik agreed that more specialist bowlers would be needed. That is exactly what I said- if Fawad is to be dropped against India, Wahab should be picked. Any spinner would have taken a beating, we saw how expensive Piyush Chawla was and how expensive Afridi was early on. Again if Malik drops Fawad now and uses 4 specialist pacers, if there is a situation where too many batsmen have been dismissed too quickly critics will start complaining again that an extra batsman should be played. Whenever Fawad is out of the playing XI people say an extra batsman is needed. When he does play people say an extra bowler is needed. So it seems it’s a no win situation.
I am beginning to seriously consider that one of Pakistan’s big 4 should be omitted. The choice seems to lie between Misbah and Younis, going off the premise that Malik is captain and has an immovable position in the team and Yousuf is the team’s most consistent batsman. In fact MIsbah is the vice captain and he will also not be replaced any time soon. Hence Younis is the one who should be the sacrificial lamb, even though he is a good batsman and good team man. That is simply because his average of 32/33 in ODI’s PLAYING AT NO 3 is just not good enough. It reeks of inconsistency and failure to understand what the no 3 role for a batsman, is about.
June 27, 2008 at 4:59 am
khansahab
me2, I also understand your point of view and I also agree with you there is a dilemma in team selection. There cannot be a perfect team for every match and every situation. The important thing is consistency from the batsmen and the bowlers, only then you can say the team is balanced. Otherwise, after every defeat there will be a big question mark of whether to play with 5 specialist bowlers and 6 specialist batsmen or we have to have 2 all-rounders in the team or what?
In the bottom line of your analysis you have axed Younus Khan to find an easy solution. Anyone would have agreed with you if Younus Khan had failed recently. In fact in the Kitply Cup final he scored a century and in the first match against HK he scored 67, today he scored 59 so he has been very consistent. Although you have voiced against Misbah but, because he carries a VC tag, you cannot drop him?
I think the exclusion of Kamran Akmal has created a void in the team, his average in ODI’s is not that great, just about 25 and he has 4 centuries to his name. Whereas, Butt has a better average of almost 40 and 7 centuries to his name but, his strike rate is only 77 which makes his case weaker. And Akmal as you have said and as the selectors have also said that he is the “first choice wicketkeeper.” Therefore, his selection should be on the basis of his over all performance and utility and not just a lopsided view about his keeping. Like most Pakistanis, whenever he dropped a catch, I have also felt bad and criticized him, I was even sarcastic in saying “Thank God Akmal is not in the Asia Cup squad.”
It would be too early to compare the two keepers, still we need to see the facts. How many catches has Sarfaraz Ahmad held in these two matches in Asia Cup? Zero. How many runs has he scored so far in Asia Cup? Only 7. And one can debate about his skills but, I am not impressed by his keeping. I believe a player must be judged in totality and not in parts. Akmal in totality is a better player than Sarfaraz, there is no Karachi or Lahore issue here. Its purely a professional opinion as I see it. I think its unfair on part of Akmal if we ignore his recent performance.
In the Kitply Cup in three matches Akmal took 6 catches and scored a total of 78 runs or an average of 26 runs. In fact, in that match which Pakistan lost by 140 runs, Akmal’s contribution with the bat was second highest after Malik (53 in 67 balls) Akmal scored 38 in 35 balls with 4 fours and 2 sixes.
The reason he was dropped was because Talat Ali Malak wanted to save his skin and also of Shoaib Malik. In his match report he asked for axing Akmal for claiming a bogus catch, and that was because DNA was very unhappy with the 140 runs defeat and sent an email to the team manager. I don’t want to make a big issue out it but, that was a lame excuse to drop him.
If you want my honest opinion about that dropped catch of Sehwag, using my PVR, I replayed that catch several times on the big screen and I saw it frame by frame and trust me, when Akmal dived, the ball actually popped out from his catching hand but, it rolled over from the top of the glove from one hand to the other and he held it, there is no clear cut evidence that the catch was grassed, may be it looked like that to the third umpire, but when you freeze it frame by frame you can see he did not grass it.
Besides, his intention cannot be judged as malign as Talat Ali claimed that he knew he grassed it and yet he claimed a bogus catch. No his eyes were not on the ball and he did not see it, but, he must have felt that the ball rolled over from the top of the glove and landed in the other hand and thats exactly what happened and thats why he claimed it as a catch. I remember in the WC in SA Ganguly claimed a catch in the gully region and appealed very loudly, on the big screen when they showed the ball landed a few inches before him and there was a puff of dust, Ganguly winked and was giggling after that. India had won that match and no one talked about it later.
Anyways, Akmal is not my favourite player but his punishment was just an excuse, a face saving device for the team manager. Had Pakistan lost the Kitply Cup final, Shoaib Malik and Talat Ali Malik both would have been out along with Akmal.
Anyways, whats done cannot be undone, but Akmal’s absence has created some serious problems which we are calling it a dilemma and its true. Its very common that in Pakistan and even in India when someone attains a star status he becomes indispensable and thats what happened to Misbah, they even made him the VC after that T20 WC for what, and why? During the IPL when Misbah did not perform he was sent to the dugout.
Therefore, I would like to come to the conclusion using your own sentence “Misbah’s place in the team has caused more problems than there were before he became an automatic selection.” And what I don’t understand is after beating around the bush you still did not say in two words, “drop Misbah,” I would say that if you can’t. Drop Misbah, so what if he is the VC? Wasn’t Salman Butt dropped for not performing when he was the VC?
Or, the easy solution is, drop Afridi because he is not performing with his bat, so what if he is bowling well? Even if he is the top wicket taker in the world during the year 2008, so what? The majority of his haters believe that he is no good. So, why are the selectors keeping him in the team? Get Mansoor Amjad.
June 27, 2008 at 8:11 am
Interesting comments by khansaab and javed ab’t balance in pak team. I want to know who will be picked if u drop misbah … he is doing fine job at no 5. For me the most balanced line-up for pak is the same they came up in the last match. If akmal comes into the picture again then use him at no 6 .. he will give misbah much solid partnership in the end. If u guys insist on playing akmal at top then drop butt .. but dont push malik down the order …. he will be useless at no 5 or 6. Pak batting is not bad if u ask me …. they just need to push an extra bit in their approach. Hope malik identifies himself as a top order batsman rather a “finisher”.
Yesterday match was over as soon as gul departs after bowling just 8 balls. Though pak have created nervous moment for india after dismissing gambhir .. but i must say raina played brilliantly … cool and calm .. thats what u need from ur top order batsmen to calm down the proceeding. Hope he continues his form and let rohit sharma fight for the no 3 spot. This wud be interesting tussle.
Javed
Agreed that evaluation of a captain is very subjective kinda thing .. differs from person to person … there is no such formula to prove a point. Even judging a player is easier task than judging a captain. i havent seen pataudi or kapil or gavaskar captaincy .. but my dad praises pataudi, wadekar and kapil as a good captains. Though his idea is totally simpleton … whoever win matches for india he admires them.
I totally disagree u on the point that tendulkar gives less priority to the team. What do u want from him … captaining india and loosing on consistent basis ? Remember in toronto when he was captain and won the series against pak with 4-1.. he was more than happy to continue as a captain though his personal performance was totally dismissal. Had india continued winning under his captaincy, he wud never let this job to go to neone. Whenever he refused captaincy it was good for the team.
Now on changing order and all …… This indian team is in making and nobody except openers, dhoni, yuvraj have cemented their place in the team. Ponting has played lots of cricket before cementing his place at no 3 … even he batted at no 4 and 5 when he was young. Indian team is now chunk of 20 odd players (mostly new even in domestic cricket) and these players can adapt according to circumstances. Rohit sharma was pushed down the order in the same way raina was kicked out of the team. And Y pathan is not the top order batsman …. he can float in top 4 only in extra-ordinary situation. This all is competition …they got to earn their places rather being gifted.
And yeah i appreciate ur light hearted comment abt reverse psychology …. when i was a kid i used to bet (of rupees 5 only
) against india to have win win situation.
“jeet bhi meri aur haar bhi”
June 27, 2008 at 8:31 am
Javed A Khan,
Good analysis there but unfortunately I will disagree more than agree.
On the point of Afridi, first dropping him is not really a question. I know you have reluctantly raised that point because Afridi’s haters are saying that should happen and Amjad should be used in his position. As long as Afridi’s bowling is consistent there is no problem, or there shouldn’t be.
What I was trying to say in my analysis is, that Misbah should not even be in the team but now that he is the vice captain, Younis should get the axe because the PCB looks at Misbah as a possible captaincy candidate in case Malik does not impress by the end of this year. I am pretty sure Misbah will be handed the reins by the start of next year because Malik’s contract as captain runs until December 08. This is of course unless there is a miracle and Malik becomes an Imran Khan. So the PCB is not going to drop Misbah because they feel it is too big a risk whereas dropping Younis will be an easier option.
As far as Kamran Akmal goes my opinion of him has changed drastically since 2007. Before that I even saw him as a possible candidate for captaincy. My disagreement over the Akmal issue is, I think he is an average batsman and only scores runs by fluke. It doesn’t matter which part of Pakistan Akmal is from. Even if he was from Mardan or Karachi or Khyber Agency, he was a huge reason why Pakistan had a forgettable 2007. You mentioned “dropping catches”- I’ve forgotten how many catches he dropped in 2007 and not just dropped them, he also dropped them on important occasions which hurt the team more.
Isn’t it a bit too early to give judgement on the Sarfraz Ahmed issue? You say how many catches he has taken and how many runs he has scored. How many chances has he had to prove both those points and how many catches has he actually dropped? Unlike Akmal who has batted in numerous batting positions including opener and spills about one catch every match he plays. If a batsman has not edged or nicked a ball for Sarfraz to collect then I don’t think it is fair to blame him for that. Again, the fact that he is from Karachi has nothing to do with my opinion, except that the consensus on this blog is that generally some sort of discrimination does tend to occur against non Punjabi players in the team, especially Karachi players. “Opinions” are just something we are trading with each other here, and opinions of course are always more subjective than objective. I remember in the early part of this year when Akmal was playing in a series and some foreign commentator was shocked and said, “I still can’t believe he is still in the team”. So I think that tells you the story. In domestic cricket Sarfraz averages 45 in first class and 21 in List A cricket whereas Akmal averages 32 in first class and 28 in List A. So I don’t think it is reasonable to say Akmal is a better batsman until and unless Sarfraz gets a decent run to showcase his batting.
Yes Younis has been consistent the last 3 innings he has played. But 2 of those innings have been against India, against whom he suddenly appears as a different player for some strange reason and 1 of those innings has been against Hong Kong. Against India and minnows many Pakistani batsmen show “consistent consistency”. If 25% of Pakistan’s international schedule consists of playing India and minnows and if Younis is consistent for only 25% of the schedule, then he cannot be called a consistent batsman. Otherwise why would his ODI average be only 33 after 167 innings? The strange equation with Younis is that, a few Sri Lankan players also average in the early 30’s but they are much more consistent than him. We say Malik is a bad player etc but if Malik can average more than Younis, then something is definitely wrong with Younis who talent wise and class wise, is one of the best the country has ever seen.
June 27, 2008 at 9:15 am
Also about Akmal’s catch- I do understand Javed A Khan’s view in that he saw video replays of the incident and gathered Akmal could not know if he had spilled it. However my gut instinct was that the ball lobbed from his glove to the ground, in fact it didn’t even fit properly in his glove (if he never really gripped it properly in the front place that raises the presumption he might have felt he has dropped it). It just wasn’t a clean take. Having said that if Akmal had a foul intention the media would have made a lot of noise which it didn’t, which might suggest what Javed A Khan is saying is right.
But was it not a dropped catch? It most certainly was. It perhaps wasn’t the easiest of chances but still should have been taken.
June 27, 2008 at 11:14 am
Yesterday’s match was very one-sided. The pitch was very flat. The slow start costed Pakistan dearly. There was nothing much any opposition captain could do when Sehwag is in such murderous form.
This was how Pakistan played in the Kitply cup final and won the cup. They followed the same strategy this time but couldn’t succeed. I think Gul’s collapse at the start of the match turned the coin in India’s favour. If he could have played and bowled his full quota of overs, who knows what could have happened. Pakistan will be under tremendous pressure when they play India next time as they don’t know the best total to defend.
Regarding India run chase, I am very impressed by the way Sehwag and Raina chased that mammoth total. They didn’t show any signs of pressure and played strokes as if they were chasing 100 runs. The biggest pressure they would have faced was from IPL franchisee owners. If you don’t play well for India, you will still get chances but it is not the same case with IPL. The franchisee owners will question you because they have invested on you. I could see that pressure on poor Dravid’s face in IPL. Chasing 300 is not that difficult than answering to franchisee’s owners’ questions! Indian players are maturing and have started to use their brains with controlled aggression! Another good thing above all is that they are enjoying their work.
I won’t blame any Pak bowlers for this defeat. Pakistan miscalculated the pitch by scoring slowly at the beginning and paid the price for it.
June 27, 2008 at 11:53 am
Kamran Akmal’s core job was wicket keeping, in which he cost Pak more matches than he won by his batting. I would even say it was the worst wicket keeping I’ve seen in last three years by any wicket keeper. India won because of a very simple fact; they are superior team than Pak in batting, bowling, fielding, wicket keeping, and also have a far superior captain than Pakistan. There is no contest there, period. Pak win sometime because of some brilliant individual performances. People say all kind of stuff but good players win matches for you and a good captain motivates team to perform and fight to their potential. I’m glad Sarfaraz has replaced Akmal, good riddance. Akmal needs a break and should concentrate on his glove work. Sarfaraz is just a rookie, he has a lot to prove but where did he disappoint? Wasn’t Akmal part of the team which had the worst defeat against India?
There is no need to make changes after a loss, no knee jerk action is necessary. Misbah and Younis are great players, name two who will replace them? Like I have been saying all along “Bowling will win us matches”, no good bowlers not too many wins. Imagine India had to chase 299 against the likes of Waqar, Wasim, and Shoaib? People were talking about need of replacing all the players with new ones? Who will be the new ones btw? Fawad is the best allrounder available from domestic cricket; similarly Srafaraz is the best wicket keeper available. Young players need confidence and chances, we need to build a team with whatever talent is available, remember Rajasthan Royals?
June 27, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Theossa
I don’t have much time due to work but all I would say is that I totally agree to what you have said above. Perhaps Javed had forgotten how bad KA was as a keeper ;)-
As khansahab said if there was no catch to collect for Sarfraz Ahmed then that’s not his fault. Lets give the new kid a chance to prove himself and encourage him…a decent run needs to be given to him.
June 27, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Awas
LOL, no I haven’t forgotten KA, but don’t you remember in the later part of the IPL he played better? But, whatever I have expressed about his replacement, its my opinion like you all have your views and opinions.
khansahab
my observation on your comment about Misbah was or still is that you are airing the views of the PCB and I was suggesting that you should have been expressing your views and not what the PCB thinks because he is a VC hence he is indispensable. And on dropping Afridi, my suggestion was a mere sarcasm to make someone happy.
theossa
I do agree with you that bowlers win matches, but its not always true, in one of the WC matches in SA, when Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib played for Pakistan they still lost to India and it was again the opening pair of Sehwag and Tendulkar that gave India a flying start.
If you look at the stats of most matches, whenever the openers have given a flying start or one individual has scored 60-70 in 30 balls or so, the match was won on the basis of that quick fire runs. When the openers did not score fast they made the middle order struggle. Mind you there is no Javed Miandad or Inzamam in Pakistan’s team to play that match winning roles anymore. Neither Yousuf, Younus nor Misbah are capbale of taking that kinda responsible role. In fact Misbah is not a finisher at all and we ALL know this.
Yes, I have also seen those stats on TV yesterday where they showed Malik’s averages from number 1 to 10 (when he started his career as an off-spinner he played at number 10) and the commentators were saying that Malik should know at which position he is good at? The problem with Malik was because of his mediocre bowling he wanted to cement his place on the strength of his batting which he was improving with time and accepted to play at any position only to be a part of the team.
Now, that he is the captain he can dictate his choice and stick with that. Since he has averaged more as an opener, he should play as an opener. The reason I was saying he should not open is because he is a slow starter and with Butt who is even worst, they will play extremely slow and thats exactly what happened.
Therefore, in my opinion he should not play avec Butt and choose a partner who can score fast. Thats why I said that Kamran Akmal’s exclusion has created a void. Because, neither Malik nor the selectors would be willing to gamble with Afridi opening avec Malik. Although it doesn’t matter if he gets out early but when he doesn’t you win a match. Currently he is out of form and one quick 50 - 60 will bring him back into his rhythm.
If playing with Afridi as an opener is a crime then, let Tanvir open the innings with Malik. One day you have to replace someone else like, Akmal has been replaced by Sarfaraz so why not try Tanvir and see if it works? Butt can bat at any other number? In ODI’s and T20 playing with a double negative will not make it a positive. But, playing with double positive will result in positive, look at Gambhir and Sehwag they are equally explosive and score fast. Like, Saeed Anwar and Amir Sohail.
Besides, khansahab (even me, I have said a few times) says that Butt is not a T20 or an ODI player, all his hundreds have come against India and that too at a slower pace so whats wrong in experimenting someone who can score fast? This is not a test match, even a player like Younus Khan whom we have been criticizing so much that he is only a test player has changed his style and started playing aggressively in ODI’s. So, why not Butt? Is it more important to score a hundred and loose the match or is it more important to score less and still win a match? Malik as a captain must choose between the two. Because, he cannot be Inzamam, whenever Inzi scored a century, Pakistan had won 19 out of 21 times.
June 27, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Sakhti
I wanted to reply to your points but my previous comment was getting too long, so I thought I should write you separately on that Indian perspective of yours which you have so rightly expressed.
First, its not Pakistan who miscalculated the pitch, it was the captain Shoaib Malik. But, from his post match press conference it appears that he is not bothered about it and he does not consider it as a mistake, because he scored a century and absolved himself from the responsibilities, that is the irony of a shortsighted captain who can only see his contribution as a positive input and not bothered about the team result.
Secondly, like you’ve said, Arun Lal was also raving and ranting that Pakistan cannot apply the same theory or the principle that they applied during the Kitply Cup final. First, that win was a fluke, second the opposition can always counter that plan once they see that its the same technique that is being used against them, and they did counter them successfully by attacking from the word go.
On your comment about the IPL, I would say that playing for your country for honour and pride is something and, for some people money is everything and for some, money is important and it is not everything. The franchiser can be snooty like Dravid’s franchiser was snooty. Whereas, Tendulkar’s was not, in fact he was very supportive and thats why they came back so strongly in the later part of the tournament. So, it also depends from franchiser to franchiser and his attitude towards his franchisee. But taking out your frustration on the franchisee is not gonna help in getting the best out of him/them.
Finally, regarding Umar Gul, even if he had not taken any wicket his presence would have kept the pressure on Indian batsmen and also the morale of the Pakistan team may not gave gone down that fast. The moment they saw Umar Gul leaving the field, they resigned and surrendered, although the first ball of Rao yielded in a wicket, but that was the only thing that happened, thereafter it was a gloomy picture in the Pakistani camp. Unless they change their technique and their strategy it would be very hard for them to beat this Indian team especially since Umar Gul is ‘reportedly’ out of the tournament, Wahab Riaz is not that confident and there is no other fast bowler in the team now.
June 27, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Those bloggers who may have not noticed the cricinfo link on the top right side of our website, titled, “Malik opens door to selections tussles” here is the link:
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/asiacup/content/current/story/358284.html
And here is the full article:
Asia Cup 2008
Malik opens door to selection tussles
Osman Samiuddin
June 27, 2008
Shoaib Malik re-ignited a simmering selectorial tussle when he appeared to blame the selection committee in the aftermath of Pakistan’s emphatic six-wicket loss to India in the Asia Cup. Though he subsequently tried to play down his own comments, little doubt was left that the relationship between Pakistan’s captain and selectors is far from a healthy one.
During an often tense press conference in Karachi, Malik, responding to a journalist’s question on the composition of the team, snapped back, “When captains are given the 11 players, then you ask this question of the selectors.” Reporters immediately latched on to the implication, repeatedly probing Malik about whether there was friction within the management.
Malik backtracked in spirit if not in word, testily explaining then that his thoughts and suggestions were also taken into account. “In Pakistan, selectors give the final XI,” Malik said. “The captain and coach give their inputs but the selectors put down the XI. We all work together on this. Is that clear enough?”
Though the dispute has history, it is believed that the latest tiff arose from Malik’s reluctance to open the innings against India, preferring to recall Nasir Jamshed. That would mean dropping Fawad Alam, who had scored a maiden fifty in the previous game against Hong Kong, an idea the selectors did not ultimately agree to. There is also reportedly disagreement over whether or not Pakistan should play a specialist offspinner, Malik, in favour of giving Saeed Ajmal a debut ….. (at whose expense?)
The selection committee also played down speculation about a rift. “There can be differences of opinion between selectors and the coach and captain,” Salahuddin Ahmed, the Pakistan board’s chief selector, told Cricinfo. “But that doesn’t mean there is a rift. We always select the best XI for any game. The squad of 15 we chose for the Asia Cup was, however, approved by everyone, including the captain.”
Though in isolation the development is more molehill than mountain, it is actually part of a history of unease between selectors, captain and coach in this tenure. Over time, the selection committee is thought to have become increasingly unimpressed with Malik’s reluctance to bowl and his push for players such as the non-performing Kamran Akmal. During the series against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh also, there were a number of heated disagreements between Geoff Lawson and the selection committee; their relationship is also a tense one.
At least in part, the friction stems from a recent board policy which gives the selection of the final XI, for home series, fully to the selectors. This policy, in turn, was a result of the disenchantment with the autocratic powers Malik’s predecessor, Inzamam-ul-Haq, enjoyed during his tenure, when the final XI was unequivocally the captain’s choice.
Osman Samiuddin is Pakistan editor of Cricinfo
June 27, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Thanks Javed for including the Osaman’s article in your post as I did not read it on Cricinfo and it further confirms my suspicion that there is a rift between Malik and Slahuddin. One should ask Malik what is the role of selection committee? He just has to look at the name of the committee. I’ve been saying this along that all the 15 players should be selected by Selection Committee and coach and captain should have a say in the final eleven. So here is what I learned so far, Malik does not want Afridi, Sarfaraz, and fawad in the team. The inclusion of Fawad was on the basis of an allrounder while Nasir Jamshed is a specialist batsman so that don’t make any sense and similarly Ajmal for Afridi? Are you kidding me? The wickets that are prepared neither support pace nor spin so why introduce a youngster and butcher him by the likes of Sehwag, Gambhir, Raina, Dhoni, Jayasuria, Sangakara. We should not forget Wahab and unless he is mentally tough he must be lacking confidence, come on I mean these batsmen are just savage. If wickets were grassy I’m sure both India and Pakistan are capable of bundling up within a score of 150 against the likes of Kumar and Wahab. Someone said here earlier that for the matches against Hong Kong, Bangladesh some of the senior players should be rested and young one should be given the chance and that’s spot on. Coach btw should shut his face and do what he is supposed to do and that is coach the young players and prepare a winning strategy and not ganging up with Malik to play politics.
Is that confirmed Gul is out of the tournament? That would be a big blow and will further reduce their chances of even reaching the finals.
June 27, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Hello everyone,
This is a nice blog you have put together not just because of excellent views provided by experts and cricket enthusiasts, but because people actually read this blog and reply to each other quite eagerly.
I am an non resident-Indian and would like to comment on the Indian perspective in Asia Cup. To start with let us all accept that there are three strong teams in running for the winnign the Asia cup — Pakistan, SriLanka and India. This is what most of the people in this blog will agree I suppose. But from here on I prefer to take a different route in guessing who is a better team and most likely to win the Asia Cup. First of all I do not think this Indian team deserves the Asia cup. Let us get this straight, none of the teams are even close to being called “Professionals”. The definition of “Professional” according to me is the one who carries out his duties regularly and consistently. It is the job of a professional to do his job!
I changed the paragraph, not because I want to change the idea, but because it was getting too big
Anyway getting back to being professional, does any of the three teams understand what it means? Take for example India — they dropped 4 catches in Thursday’s match against Pakistan and in post-match presentation Dhoni was like — chalta hain yaar… I mean wtf? What if the Indian cricket team was owned by Dhoni and he wanted to run it as a professional business and say a few of his mates ruin 4 deals, this would definitely get Dhoni mad and he would not have this “chalta hain” attitude. There are so many instances I can quote in this match which showed non-professional attitude by the Indian team.
1. Dhoni’s stupid non-professional attitude after 4 catches went down. This I have already talked about.
2. Sehwag’s non-chalant attitude once he reached 70-80 odd runs. I mean, I understand that team needs a quick start and he has povided it, but what after that? His job is non finished until the team wins. He should know this clearly. The expressions on his face after reaching 70-80 odd runs are like, I am done dude, now its upto others to win the match. I mean, he is paid for winning the match for India and not just making 70-80 odd runs, taking a wicket here and there. I hate this kind of attitude because he is a senior in the team and he should understand the responsibilities of a senior. He just looses concentration after those 70-80 runs. Some might argue that it becomes really tiresome after playing so many overs and even Malik retired hurt because of cramps and fatigue, but my point is, isn’t this the lack of fitness then? Is this professionalism? You are expected to be fit throughout the 100-overs. If you are not fit, then please do not play. I agree that I might be getting too harsh here, but guys this is where one has the chance to improve. Right now Sehwag and his mates must be pretty satisfied with his batting, but sorry I am not. He has to improve…
3